John MacArthur, the well-known American pastor, author, and theologian, said this in a recent interview with Ben Shapiro: interview He said that “not all Jews are truly Jews in the spiritual sense” and that “motivated by love” he called Jews “to know Christ as Savior.”
McArthur, pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, also said the preservation of ethnic Israel is part of God’s plan and that, according to the prophecy of Romans 11:26, in the last days, “all Israel will be saved.”
Shapiro, a conservative American political commentator and an Orthodox Jew who denies that Jesus is the Messiah, responded to MacArthur’s comments by saying it was a “good thing” for Christians to hope for salvation through Jesus.
“I’m not at all offended by the fact that Christians want me to be saved,” Shapiro told MacArthur, “I’m very grateful that people care about my soul and want me to be saved after death. So I’ve never found it unpleasant or dangerous for people to try to convert me. Again, I think that’s a very good thing.”
This conversation is the second to be made public between Shapiro and MacArthur. beginning It was held in 2018.
MacArthur is one of America’s best known evangelical leaders and also heads the “Grace To You” media ministry.
In their conversation, MacArthur and Shapiro found common ground in their opposition to secularism and woke ideology and in their belief in the need to revive Christianity in America.
Shapiro spoke out against the “weird androgynous” image of Jesus depicted in many churches, saying many leaders are afraid to condemn their followers and the world for their sins.
MacArthur agreed with Shapiro’s comments, saying Jesus did not shy away from calling the world and Israel’s leaders to repentance.
“Much of his ministry was about pronouncing judgment,” MacArthur said. “Either you go to God for forgiveness and salvation or you face God’s judgment.”
He pointed out that Jesus “entered the temple at the beginning of his ministry and made a whip and swept away the buyers and sellers. And then at the end of his ministry three years later, during Holy Week, he did the same thing again. And he stood outside the temple and said that in this temple not one stone can stand on another, for it is corrupted, and I will destroy it all…and pronounced judgment on that temple. Shortly afterwards, in 70 A.D., the Romans came and we all know what happened to Jerusalem, but that was exactly what Jesus said would happen.”
MacArthur noted that most Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah, but said that Jews who accepted Christ were “true Jews” spiritually.
“During that time, of course, there were true Jews. The New Testament tells us that not all Jews were true Jews in the spiritual sense — that is, in the sense of loving God, loving God’s law, and wanting to honor God.”
Shapiro said he was honored that Christians wanted him to be saved, but said he worried there were “bad actors” trying to stoke animosity between Jews and Christians.
“I think there was an attempt to divide Jews and Christians by some bad people who just can’t hold two ideas in their heads at the same time,” Shapiro said. “The first idea is that Christians certainly want Jews to convert, and the second idea is that, yes, Jews and Christians have a lot in common. You can hold those two ideas in your head at the same time.”
Shapiro then asked MacArthur for his views on how Christians should interact with Jews.
“What do you think the relationship between Christians and Jews should be? How should Christians approach Jews?”
MacArthur responded that the “difference between Jews and Christians” was “their view of Christ.”
He further stated that Christians should have a deep love for the people of Israel, just like the apostle Paul.
“The Apostle Paul said, I am willing to be damned if it is for the salvation of my people Israel,” MacArthur said. “So that’s what’s in my heart. Do I want you to be saved through faith in Christ? Yes. Do I want the Jewish people to be saved and come to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah? Because Jesus fulfills Isaiah 53, He fulfills a lot of the promises of the Old Testament, He was a miracle worker who rose from the dead and He demonstrated all of that. Do I want the Jewish people to believe? Yes. Paul actually said, I am willing to be damned if it is for the salvation of my people Israel. So, yes, we want the Jewish people to know that Christ is their Messiah. It’s fundamentally driven by love.”
MacArthur also stated that “true Christians have a deep love for the Jewish people” because they were chosen by God to be central to His plan of salvation.
MacArthur noted that “as far as Christianity is concerned, the fulfillment of that election is found in salvation brought about through the Messiah,” and that “the prayer of Christians has always been that the Jews would see Christ as their Messiah.”
The only way Jews could approach the Messiah, he said, was by reading the New Testament.
“All I can ask of the Jewish people is to read the four Gospels. Keep reading. And see if you can’t find an awakening in your heart that Jesus was in fact the Messiah that he claimed to be…. Read the New Testament. That’s all I can say. That’s the revelation of the Messiah. And read it, open your heart to the Lord and see if he doesn’t convince you that Jesus is your Messiah. That is the joy that I have for Israel, for you.”
MacArthur said God has protected the Jewish people throughout history, ultimately to fulfill the promises he made in the Old and New Testaments.
“The New Testament says, ‘And so all Israel will be saved.’ The kingdom is coming. When the Messiah establishes his kingdom, all of the promises God made to David, all of the promises He made to Abraham, all of the promises He made through the prophets will be fulfilled. God will protect his people.”
